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Patricia G.  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, September 8, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
Patricia G.

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Hi bagby

The issues you are describing are symptoms of a video card problem. Try these steps

1 - Check the website of your video card manufacturer and update the drivers

2 - Go to the video setup on your PC (may be different for different versions of Windows and video card); for most, click on an empty part of the windows Desktop, click on Settings->Advanced->Troubleshoot). Back the accelerations slider to the left, one level each time and see if the problem dissapears

3 - Right click on the wallpaper (look for a place without icons)--> Properties--> Settings--> Advanced--> Open GL--> Compatibility Settings--> Force 16 bits--> Apply--> OK

4 - Set your video color depth at 24 or 32 bits ("true color")

5 - Go to www.microsoft.com/directx, and see what version is current and check if you have this version installed in your computer

6 - Some NVidia card users reported additional problems--> in this case change the color settings from 32 bit to 16 bit

For Windows 7 --> Right Click on your desktop --> Personalize --> display --> Change Display settings--> Advanced

Patricia
Patricia G.- Forum Moderator
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bagby  
#2 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
bagby

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16

My video card is an older model, an ATI Radeon 9000. ATI has not updated the drivers in several years now. Indeed, they have stated they won't make a Win7 driver for the card. That's normal for them, I had an earlier ATI card that they refused to make an NT 4.0 driver for. (Alas that Nvidia's support is even worse.) However, I have been keeping the drivers and DirectX up to date all along. My video resolution has always been set to 32 bits. There is no OpenGL tab in the settings, and no compatibility setting in the Catalyst application. The only OpenGL settings are unrelated. I have managed this card through a whole horde of oddball applications and a great many games, so I find it difficult to understand that, at this late date, the problem is the video card. It is even more difficult to believe this since the problem will not go away -- that is, that closing and re-opening LiveView doesn't fix things, or that saving the file, quitting, restarting and re-opening doesn't restore things to the proper appearance. However, I will try lowering the acceleration -- which has worked very well with every other game and application I've thrown at it -- in hopes that this will prevent or at least reduce future problems. I was, however, looking for information about recovering from existing situations -- project files in which the textures have gone crazy. Is there any way I can restore them, or do I just have to write off all of that work?
Patricia G.  
#3 Posted : Monday, September 13, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
Patricia G.

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Hi bagby,

First thing, regarding the OpenGL, you can check this page for info regarding use, update, etc
http://www.opengl.org/

I am using ATI radeon since 2001 and they do an excellent work with Punch. In my opinion, ATI works better than NVidia for Punch purposes. Now, regarding the drivers, I had a similar experience with ATI and their tech dept. Please read these old posts, they will help you to understand the problems and solutions

Patricia G., "AS 5000 programmed for Quad core processors?" #3, 7 Jan 2008 2:29 pm
Patricia G., "Exterior wall color application causes sky to change" #5, 30 Nov 2005 1:58 pm

(in both cases, read the entire thread)

I'd suggest to try to back the accelerations, and see if this solves the problem. If not, try to back the driver as I did in the first of the posts above

Let me know if this works

Patricia
Patricia G.- Forum Moderator
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bagby  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
bagby

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16

I take it that since I have asked twice with no reply, there is no way to recover from the error, that the previous files are now hopelessly corrupt, and that I may as well delete them because I'll never get them right again. Is that correct? I've read the threads you referenced, but still don't see this issue addressed: how can driver problems cause permanent file corruption without that file being loaded? While I understand the issues regarding textures being misapplied -- e.g.,, to the sky instead of to the object (and I find it really odd that this wasn't addressed a long time ago -- "Change the sky texture? Are you sure you want to do that?" -- God knows, there are enough other little nags like that, what's one more?) this is not that issue. This texture was already in place, and I did not attempt to apply a new one. Rather, it spontaneously corrupted itself, not just for that instance, but for every future instance of application whether taken from the palette or the original library, and meanwhile appearing correctly on the palette. Indeed, I was "inside the house". when the sky/ground evil happened. I was "in another room" when the wall corruption occurred. Only when I looked through a window, did I notice that the sky had gone nuts.Only when I entered the first room did I see that the wallpaper had gone crazy. I read LMC's explanation about video drivers, and understand it. I don't agree with his reasoning because video mistakes can persist for a long time indeed and that wouldn't be acceptable to anyone, but the occasion of redrawing the whole screen, (the equivalent of getting a video "A" frame) however that comes about, seems like it ought to sort the problem he describes. It doesn't. It appears instead that there is a mistake which can occur in the rendering, and which once made, is thereafter written in stone: the wall/sky/ground/whatever will now forever reiterate that same rendering mistake and never get it right, even by accident. Rebooting or resetting ought to clear it, but does not. Murphy doesn't merely run riot, he stages a coup d'etat and has himself elected dictator for life. This is why I believe that something beyond the driver must be at the root of this issue. I have lowered the graphics acceleration and essentially started over. Two weeks down the drain. I do hope this will at least not happen again.
Patricia G.  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
Patricia G.

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/1/2002(UTC)
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Hi bagby,

First of all, let me clarify that I am not a Punch employee, I am an Architect and a volunteer here, trying to help Punch users to the best of my knowledge so my answers are just based in my 9 years of experience with Punch
The textures going to the sky or to the grass and not to the object is a video card problem (not only the driver) and it is not related with the program, so it is not an issue to be addressed by Punch
To verify this, send me one of your files, and let me know what texture you cannot change and I will verify where the problem is
If you wish, send me also one of your corrupted files (with a short reminder of the problem) and will check it too
For information purposes, I will post the diagnostic here

PatriciaAC
Patricia G.- Forum Moderator
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Patricia G.  
#6 Posted : Monday, September 20, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
Patricia G.

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/1/2002(UTC)
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Hi there,

I received and I checked your file. For learning purposes, I am posting my answer here

The file and textures work flawless in my 3 computers, with different OS, different videocards and capabilities. I sent the images and they show the rendering without any issue
So, the problem is in your computer.
I understand (as per your email) that you are skeptical regarding the videocard issue, but I saw this videocard problem dozens of times in the last 9 years.
In addition, I experienced the same problem with a defective ATI Radeon 2600 series!!

A second problem, you have a corrupted texture--> for this reason, I elaborated a new texture and sent you the instructions for the installation and replacement in your palette
This will solve only the corruption problem but not the video card problem

Patricia
Patricia G.- Forum Moderator
My Website: Punchhelpers
My Facebook page: Punchhelpers on Facebook
My eBooks: Pat’s eBooks
My Store: Punchhelpers Store
bagby  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
bagby

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 16

I understood that clearly from the beginning, Patricia, that you don't work for Punch! and also that you aren't responsible in any way for their products. I perform a similar role myself (that is, unpaid, forum-based technical support while not in any way connected with the company that makes it) for a very popular freeware application in a completely different field, so I understand and sympathize with your position . I have sent a copy of my project file showing the issues I'm having (which, BTW, do not include being unable to change a texture, perhaps you misunderstood that) to your web site email address. I'd like to know whether you experience the same problem as more particularly described in that email. (It's just more difficult to describe if you don't have anything to look at.)
Patricia G.  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:00:00 AM(UTC)
Patricia G.

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 11/1/2002(UTC)
Posts: 7,631

Thanks: 8 times
Was thanked: 141 time(s) in 139 post(s)
Hi bagby,

I think that you posted the message above before I posted my answer...:-)

Anyway, some notes
I didn't say that you didn't know how to change a texture--> Your texture seems corrupted, so I created a new texture, and explained how to replace it in your palette
The link I sent was regarding your comment of the PTX (Punch texture) format

Regarding my experience with a similar problem--> I had Diamond ATI Radeon Video card, 256 mb, it worked without problems during more than a year, so few months after I bought a second vc (same brand and model) for my second computer. Then, one day the first vc started to do weird rendering, including a sky full of pixelated parts of the interior of the house. The little man used to freeze. As result of this, each file I tried to render was damaged.
I will not describe all the the steps, but, in my case, nothing helped, the videocard was damaged--> few months after, the second video card showed the same problem--> I changed for new HIS ATI Radeon VC with 512 mb, with cooling system, working without problems

Hope this helps

Patricia
Patricia G.- Forum Moderator
My Website: Punchhelpers
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